Wednesday, September 23, 2009
Consciousness
Consciousness, what an elusive concept to study! At this time, consciousness still poses more questions than the scientific community has answers for. We can never know with any certainty what is going on in another person's mind. Is my consciousness similar to yours? Do the perceptions of others differ from my own? Do other people experience the physical world in the same way that I do? Does the physical world that we perceive even exist outside of our minds? In other words, is there a mind-independent realm in which the physical objects that our minds perceive actually exist or is "reality" simply a product of the human mind? How can I even be sure that you are conscious in the same manner that I am conscious? Maybe I'm the only conscious being in the universe. Would someone please convince me that my perceptions match some mind-independent reality? Is anybody out there?
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I feel like you could be a brain in a vat,or that life could be just thoughts.Then i think about everything you experince in life.You experience so much, like growing up and living life. For expample if you where a brain in a vat could you love? could you feel? could you go through pain and all the emotions? So yes i belive that we are really here, and we are living in a world with almost 7 billion other people with thought just like this.
ReplyDeleteConsciousness is the way you know that you are alvie, you eat, talk, sleep, act, and do everything you do in your daily life revolves around conscious. Almost every person has the same brain unless some people have disorders but other than that everyone is basically the same with the same functions and consciousness is what lets you do what you do everyday!
ReplyDeleteConscienceness is when you are aware of what is going on around you. What you see, hear, taste, feel, smell, these are all part of being conscience on a day to day or night to night basis. Can you be aware of what is going on around you when others believe you are unconscience? Are you at some level of conscienceness when you are sleeping? Why do some things you are conscience of during the day sometimes make it into your dreams? When will the questions on conscienceness end?
ReplyDeleteI feel that as "P Read" said, there would be no logical reason behind the way our brains are perceiving the world. Yet, there is speculation over how we perceive knowledge through our brains. Take into consideration your surroundings. Are your really seeing the same things that a person right next to you is? Or is your brain interpreting what you want it to interpret and not really what you see. I want to come to the conclusion that we are all not just brains in a vat, but that we are all different, unique, brains inside of humans that all have certain characteristics they show. People all seem to be aware of their surroundings when together but the big question is how does their take on their surroundings change when not influenced by others?
ReplyDeleteWhy are we here if we are just a brain in a vat? Whats the purpose of that, the brain is so complex so how could that be true? Where did these brains in vats come from? How can a brain in a vat be conscious? I think we are really here because we have emotions and the ability to feel and love. Maybe our consciousness varies a little bit but i think we all experience and understand generally the same thing.
ReplyDeleteIf we were just brains in a vat how could we create all of the technology we see in "reality". Also if we were a brain in a vat why would we put ourselves in stressful situations if we don't like being stressed? because if we were a brain in a vat we would have to think about being stressed we cant actually be stressed. We also cant create millions of people and millions of voices and different colors and all the stuff in "reality" with our brain. its too complex.My opinion is that we are not brain in vats. There is not even any proof either.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a few of these statements, because really.. If we're just a brain in a vat, how is it possible for us to have all the senses that we experience, like "Cor" said? It's just not at all possible. If we're just a brain in a vat, how can we be here as humans and walk this Earth? We can't. You can think what you want, but really, a brain in a vat just isn't huminly possible. Well, maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. Doesn't thinking about it just kind of make you wonder? But really, we can't be a brain in a vat because it's just NOT POSSIBLE. Yes, Mr. Bruce, this is making my head hurt, like you said.
ReplyDeleteSo it seems as though many people do not believe that we are just brains in a vat, and I have to agree. We wouldn't have been able to develop any of the technology that we have done, or developed outrselves as a society either if we are just brains. Our entire lives revolve around society and interacting with others, and that all of that would be extremely difficult to make up on our own in our minds. Granted, all the questions about consciousness do really make you think, the idea is probably going to be something that will go unsolved for all of time. Scientifically, it's just too hard to prove what is right and what is wrong.
ReplyDeleteTo me conciousness is the ability to have thought processes and the ability to feel and have emotion. Does one person have the same conciousness as another person? We can only assume.No one really knows what goes on in another's mind. Is pain more painful to one person than another person? We do know that emotional pain is more painful to some people than others. So your feeling of pain might be different than the pain that I feel. I think that the way your mind thinks is influenced by your past. Experiences you have gone through, lessons you've learned, and what your eyes have seen effect the way your conciousness thinks and makes choices.
ReplyDeleteI feel that consciousness is the way that we see the world and all its wonders. Like the way that we just say its blue because we were told that's what we were told blue is. How do I know if you see something different? That's the thing with consciousness is that we will never know what others feel or think just what we feel or think. And as "PRead" said if we were brains in a vat could we feel emotion? love? get broken hearts? if we were brains in a vat how can we explain how everything is so real? how did we get there? and what would be controlling us?
ReplyDeleteInteresting thoughts on the subject thus far. It seems that a lot of you want to bring up the "brain in a vat” concept that we discussed in class. However, I believe that you are simplifying this concept in your attempts to quickly explain it away. Many of you have cited examples of things that we have seen, felt, or otherwise experienced as proof that the world that we perceive is too complex for us to possibly be a brain in a vat. Remember, everything that we experience (or believe that we experience) is interpreted by the brain. Everything that you see, hear, taste, smell, or touch is “experienced” though the perceptual processes in your brain. Likewise, the emotions that you feel, from happiness to anger, love to hate, fear to elation, are all products of the brain. You experience them in your conscious mind. As we saw in class, our powers of perception are not infallible -- we can be fooled. This has led many to be skeptical of what we claim to "know" about the outside world. Rene Descartes took this skepticism to its logical conclusion and began to even question his own existence. If what we "know" about the outside world can only be learned through our senses what can we say exists for certain? Do I exist? Do you exist? Descartes now famous conclusion to the question of his own existence, cogito ergo sum, was that he must exist due to the very fact that he was contemplating such eternal questions ( "I think; therefore I am"). In other words, Descartes was saying that doubting your own existence serves as proof of the reality of your existence (evidently he didn't believe that a brain in a vat would question whether or not it was a brain in a vat). Does his conclusion end this debate for you and satisfy your curiosity or do you find it insufficient to put this question to rest?
ReplyDeleteAn interesting idea, the brain in the vat is. A big step towards nihilism, but thought wrenching nonetheless. Could we, well let's go with the nihilism. Could I be a brain in a vat? Could it just be me, and you all, every thing, thought and person, be a product of my own mind? Thus meaning, that I am what some call God. I am the sky, the trees. I am you, me, him, her, the world. I created this, all of this beautiful complexity, in my vat. Just me, no one else. I am alone. I feel nothing except what I create. You feel nothing, because you are not me. Nihilism.
ReplyDeleteOr, could this belief be implausible? Are we all indeed separate minded individuals? This brings into question, do I see a tree as you see a tree? Do you feel as I feel? We're not to know.
My opinion, is that I am not the only mind. I believe that we are all separate with unique minds in and of ourselves. The universe is too large and immense to have the idea that I created it and all that exists within it. So, do we do things differently? I think so. We interpret things in similar yet opposing ways.
I'm me. You're you. That's all there is to it,
I dont't believe that we are just brains in a vat, because we wouldn't be as far in the world as we are now. We wouldn't be able to communicate as easy, or be able to do everyday things as easy. Our lives would just be boring, and I don't think that we would be able to make all of the things that happen to us. I believe that we all have separate and unique minds as well. I'm not the only mind out there, yours is also.
ReplyDeleteIf we are all brains in a vat, then who placed our brains there? Aliens? HAHA! There is no way we are brains in a vat because if we were, then everything written on this page would have been written by me, or since you are reading this is it written by you? Is that really possible? Nope, because I wrote this. I know that there are really other people out there and aren't just a product of my mind. There is no way my brain could make up all these different interpretations about this one response question.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that we are all brains in vats. There is nothing in this world that has made me believe so. That being said tho, there is no for sure way to tell wether we are or not. I don't think that it really matters if we are or not anyways. We still all want to be happy and live our lives even if our lives don't really exist. I think that all our minds are pretty much the same. Like they don't think about the same stuff necessarily, but they pretty much work the same as everyone else.
ReplyDeleteThe brain in a vat theory is very interesting. About a week ago I learned of a research experiment in which they figured out that you don't actually control what you do. They told someone to wiggle their finger and found out that there was a blip from your brain that super-seeded your communication to actually do it. This hinted at the fact that maybe you aren't the one controlling your actions. It is hard for me to believe this because then it would mean we are just puppets in someones twisted game.To think that someone out their is controlling me is crazy. On the other hand this is why psychology is such a great subject. We could debate all we want about consciousness till we are blue in the face but will never no the truth.
ReplyDeleteI think that its all just "why" questions, and everyone has a different answer because we all interpret things differently. There is no way we would be able to hold a conversation if we weren't conscious. If there is no way to really prove all this then why do we constantly study it. It's a waste of time trying to understand it, because your really just trying to understand someones opinion.
ReplyDeleteI think its really hard to say if other people see exactly what we do, but we have done enough studies to show that at least most of it is really similar. Our brain is like the mastermind of our body and its strange to think that way, but we all have brains and they seem pretty alike, yet their all different. Everything gets processed by the brain so we never do really know what exists and doesn’t exist. Yet, even though we can’t prove anything we should still just go with the flow of our perception. The world is too big to just be nonexistent. And I think that us questioning it all proves our existence and superiority of other species that do exist. And even if we are living in our own mind its okay, because its our “reality” and we believe it, and that’s all we really need.
ReplyDeleteI think that consciousness is so fascinating to ponder upon. All of the questions that can never really be answered-- the theories that can't proven, but not disproved all at the same time. Everything we are conscious of is, of course, in our mind. We believe that everything we experience is real, but what is reality composed of? Is anything actually "real"? None of it can be explained. We just go along with our lives under the assumption that their is more going on than just our minds. We assume that our perception is alike with everyone else's, but how could we ever be sure. We know that they are probably similar since we often experience the same feelings in a common situation, but all we have to go on is what we are told.
ReplyDeleteIt’s hard to say if everything exists because it only seems exist to you if it’s in your conscious mind and if not then it doesn’t seem to exist. It’s like looking at a map, you’ve been told there are other countries but you can’t know for sure until you actually see and it’s in your conscious. It’s like being told the grass is green and the sky is blue… okay, but what may look blue or green to me may look different to the next person. It’s strange to think that everyone has familiar looking brains but how they perceive things can look, feel, smell, taste, and be, completely different. I don’t know… there’s no science to back up my opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe entire brain in a vat concept makes my head spin. Although I don't believe it, there is no way to prove it wrong and there never will be. Having obvious differences in the way I perceive color makes me question if everyone else sees them differently but doesn't know it.
ReplyDeleteThe brain in the vat theory can’t be proven or disproved at all. The most likely thing is that our brains aren’t in a vat because how is to say that my brain has created a world that I don’t know barley know about. And also for my brain to create in my mind what I’m thinking of and for it to also create what about a universe filled different organism also. To me that’s to much thinking for one brain to handy.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that nothing physically exists is an exhilarating topic simply because of the fact that there is no full proof evidence to either side of the argument: Is our "reality" real or in our mind? Descartes' philosophy of the world's only existence being in our minds is not easily disputed. How can one prove that something is real or tangible? As Teacher said everything is perceived and controlled by our brains.
ReplyDeleteI was also aware of the experiment that Nick alluded to in his response. The results of the experiment seem to only further support Descartes' ideas, however disconcerting they may be. The idea that our brain is controlling our thought rather than the other way around is a bit frightening, but it could be true. The sensation of my fingers hitting each key as I type could simply by triggered by my brain rather then sensed by my touch. The only thing that would convince me of otherwise are my other senses, and in this light they are out of my control as well. This leads me to be unable to distinguish the "real" physical world from something that my mind has developed as an illusion. There is no distinction, thus leaving the question of consciousness wide open.
I agree with a lot of the comments above. I agree more with the fact that we are NOT brains in a vat. How is that even possible? I just can't see how that it is. Although it's a subject to ponder, and scientists and everyone seems to have been for this long, is it honestly possible? As BSisk stated, there is no way we could be because everything written on this page would have been written by her, or whoever is reading it. But that is not at all true, as she also said she wrote what she wrote, and I am writing this. No other person is writing this, it's my brain, and mine only. I couldn't have created everything we have in this world all by myself. All the technology, and things we live with, it's a multi person, multi brain effort. I really think we are all different people, we all have separate brains, and we're all separate people. All within our own consciousness. No one loves the same, or feels the same, or perceives the same. We're all our own person, our own being.
ReplyDeleteAlthough after stating all that, it's still a subject to be pondered, and that will be pondered. This being because, yes I don't believe we are brain's in a vat... But how can we really know for sure?
Our brains are so complex and made up of so many details that its hard to imagine we're all just brains in vats. If so would we still all be unique and be able to feel emotions if we weren’t actually experiencing them? It seems to me that we all experience life doing different things, but in a similar way.
ReplyDeleteI believe that consciousness varies, I don't think that everyone has the same consciousness. It's just like the way that we perceive things. Some people may see things on way and others may see it another way. It all depends on who the person is. I agree with PRead where if we were all just floating around in a vat, how would be able to experience the things we do. I mean sure, whoever is monitoring the vat could have control of our brains, I just feel that the way we experience things is all to real to be manipulated by some scientist.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with many of the comments above. I agree with Kirsten with many of the things that she said. I do not believe that we are brains in a vat. I mean how can we all be brains in a vat? Every one in the world has there own personality which is tied into how they perceive things and how they understand certain things. By every one having there own personalities we also have our own brains. Even though i agree with Kirsten i also have my own thoughts which means that the same person is not creating this blog as all the others. I am my own person and i do have my own brain which allows me to have different opinions and intakes on certain things compared to any one else. People may share thoughts but no one is ever really sharing the same brain because every one feels things differently. Whether it's being in love or going outside into the cold. Our brains our the ones that tell us how to feel and if we were all brains in a vat then everyone would be able to feel the same things when it came to walking out into the snow or something like that. Every one has there own way of perceiving things. By having this it allows the debates that our occurring on this page to happen. If we were all brains in a vat this blog wouldn't be as interesting as it is.
ReplyDeleteThese questions have been debated for so long I do not know if we can ever find the "truth". Some of the previous posts said something like "I know that i am not a brain in a vat and that there are more consciousness out there than mine because my mind could not make this all up or i am righting on this page so i exist" but that is no proof at all because our brains could make it all up. I do not think that I am a brain in a vat because i do not want to believe that I am the only one. I want to think that the rest of the people on this planet and maybe beyond this planet exist. But I have no scientific proof that what I think is true. I have wondered before if we all see the world the same, because all we know about the world our brain perceives. How do I know that when i say the wall is blue, how do i know what I call blue is the same exact color as your blue. These discussions are mind boggling and annoying because we can not find a answer to them. I have to go with the famous line, "I am thinking therefore i am" and not try to over-think because there might never be a solid answer.
ReplyDeleteSo far this year we have had multiple intriguing conversations, especially ones dealing with consciousness. As I read through the other comments I noticed the brain in the vat theory was coming up a lot. That side of the debate is very bizarre and is strange to think about. I also noticed that nick mentioned the wiggling finger experiment that I also learned about in physics. It is a valid point to bring up and I do support what nick says to some extent. The part I do not fully agree with is where nick says we are just puppets being controlled by other people. If the conclusion, our brain makes the decisions, of the wiggling finger experiment is true then it would imply that our brain controls our actions not someone else. However if we are a figment of someone else’s imagination then we our actions would be controlled by them. I really do not believe our lives are fake and reality is made up, but I do not know exactly how to prove it yet. As far as consciousness goes I believe that someday we will be able to see how other people perceive the world.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe we are all brains in vats, and I have a hard time wrapping my head around that concept. If you are seeing this then that means that you are in my brain, which means that you are either made up or that somehow our brains are connected. The same goes for you. This idea just it too confusing for me to believe.
ReplyDeleteWe all have our own unique opinion on consciousness. There is no solid proof as to whether what we see is physically real or if it is created in our mind. With regards to the world being in our mind, I just can't imagine everything I've seen and experienced in my life all just being a creation of my mind.
Most people like to believe that what we are experiencing is the same as what everyone else is experiencing, and I'm one of those people. But this belief might not necessarily be the case, and yet we may never know. I highly doubt that there will ever be a final answer to this whole discussion, but anything could happen.
Consciousness is a very interesting topic to ponder and discuss, but sometimes it can just be maddening. There are so many theories out there about it, each with their own strong and weak points, but any of them could be right. Even the strangest theory of them all could be what is actually happening. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
First off I do not believe that we are brains in a vat, but then again I cannot prove it either way. Honestly I do not think that science will be able to prove or disprove anything to do with consciousness. How do we know that we are all just figments of another’s imagination? Maybe we are all just characters of someone or something’s REM period or thought. We could be just a thought that continues for what we perceive as a lifetime that could really be only a second or two. How do I not know that everything I just typed is real? I see that I typed it, but does this prove that it’s my brain? Did someone else manipulate me to do it? If they did how would I know? Maybe we are like robots, controlled by someone or something else making us interact in this world? It will be hard coming up with any proof on this topic. I’d say that Descartes has come the closest to proving consciousness than anyone when he said, “I think, therefore I am.”
ReplyDeleteI believe that are actions are all caused by our conciousness. For me atleast sometimes what I dream is what happens during the day. That is why i believe that our conciousness can control our lives.b I agree with Dakota when he said, " maybe we are like robots, controlled by someone or something" because we can't control every single thing we do. We could also be some character that someone is playing in a game called LIFE. One day we will eventually find out what is the true answer to this question.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of the human conscious experience seems like an intangible scientific study. We define our consciousness as the things we are alert to, thinking about, or could possibly be thinking about. This could be translated into what the voice in our head is thinking. From this, one could deduce that not everyones conscious experience is the same based on certain aspects of ones life, ones mood, and several other things. For instance, if you had two twins that were raised differently, they should give in accurate representation of how two peoples conscious experiences relate. If one was raised in a religious household where they were babied and didn't have to work much or encounter many hardships of life, they would be apt to handle situations differently than their twin (assuming their twin had been raised in opposite circumstances). They would see the world differently; one would probably be content with their life, and one would probably have a general despair for life. This would change all the decisions they make on a day to day basis.
ReplyDeleteThe conscious experience is also how people perceive things. For instance, I don't like certain foods that my dad likes. This shows that when we both eat a certain food, we have different sensations. In my mind, I would be hating myself for ever eating it, but my dad would be enjoying it. This would mean that each of our conscious experienece would differ.
Also, I can assume that nobody has the same conscious experience because it would be really hard to have a conversation with someone about what they see if two people were thinking the exact same thing.
And lastly, about the brain in the vat topic: If you believe that our brain is too inferior to produce feelings, senations, thoughts, people, landscapes, etc, while inside of a vat, how is it that we have 1) vivid dreams that upon waking seem like "reality" and 2) how can we create these experiences in "reality" too?
Just some food for thought.
I agree with the ones who dissagreed with the brain in a vat theory. I think it is rediculous that one would think we are brains sitting in a jar hooked up to someone controlling us. If we were just brains in a vat than there would be one person who isn't because he is controling us. So where did just that one person come from and why is he the only one that isn't a brain in a vat?
ReplyDeleteI believe that we are all completely here and we are each our own person. When we are awake we are completely conscious of our surrouding, whether some of usare aware of them or not we know we are here. Just as someone else said, how are we able to hold a conversation with someone, have emotions, and see something completely differnt than the person sitting right next to us, if we were just a brain in a vat?
The brain is one of the great wonders of are world, which answer are still yet to be solved. We have been studying the brain thousands of years, and yet have found out very little about it. Many people have created theories about the conscious mind but, the mind is so complex it hard to prove these theories to be true. We try to make sense of everything in are life as humans, it seem to be in are nature. To have consciousness is to have alertness about ones surroundings. But what we end up with is something that is created by are mind; are sense, smell, taste, hear, see, touch, these are thing we are alert about, but what can prove that your mind is not making this up. We can not prove anything the search through out the brain is a on going search that has not yet, may never get solved completely.
ReplyDeleteI believe that shooting down the "Brain in a Vat" theory is done a little too hastily with most people. I for one do not rule that out as the reality of our consciousness. For example, those who do not support it shoot it down because if we were a brain in a vat how could we love, eat feel, or to the extreme even exist. It seems to me as though people are not thinking this all the way through. If in fact we are all brains in a vat as I am supporting, how we would we know we are not? Consciousness is defined by simple elements humans' perceive. Who is to say that these signals are not being transmitted from our host body to our "home base" or the brain in the vat. A perfect example as nerdy as it may sound is James Cameron's Avatar. In the film (for those who have not seen it) Jake Sully adopts an avatar form and perceives everything as if the avatar was his own body. Running with this idea, imagine if dreaming or sleep for that matter is when our "conscious" or "spirit" returns to the alternate universe that controls us. An interesting concept is that of consciousness in relation to sensation. If I smell, or taste something how can that sensation be manipulated by the brain? If our bodies are as I stated, "avatars" then they would experience everything just as if the consciousness was present in the body. But in this case the sensation would then be sent to that external operating source from which our body and consciousness are controlled and interpreted. Another argument several others have made is how would this world even exist or how could we even be typing this response. I think it's naive to believe that just because we are doing this hands on means our conscious lies within our own body. As "jtsanabria" said our minds are very powerful things. It can create alternate universes in which we believe to be reality. So who's to say our brain is not even manipulating our consciousness if one believes them to be separate. I personally believe that Renee Descartes justification of his own existence is ludicrous. "If I think therefore I am" does not necessarily mean much of anything. Yes you are thinking, but what is thinking? Is it possible our bodies are solitary vessels in which lies consciousness? Absolutely. Is there a chance that we are being operated by someone else or our brains are controlling us through an external venue? Absolutely. The one comes to the question of whether or not our perceptions are the same. I think all of our perceptions are greatly varied although there is a norm in which we are expected to relate to. For example if something is 300 degrees and I touch it and perceive it to be hot I shall assume for the sake of conversation that another person who touches it also believes it to be hot. This in my opinion is because of the spectrum of which we are expected to perceive. I think consciousness is an interesting concept all together. As "Dakota" says I do not believe I can prove whether the conscious is internal or external.
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ReplyDeleteI typed something and forgot to save it twice, therefore I will be brief and not type in the most pretentious and convulated english imaginable or in the dumbest manner gramatically and structurally, as I have seen both of these types of writings throughout the posts (one more than the other).
ReplyDeleteSenesations equals perception equals consciousness. Whatever we experience is my definition of consciousness, whether it be empirically or theoretical. As Thomas Nagel hypothesized; conscious is something that it is like. As long as there is something to perceive there is consciousness.
This very subjective question leads to many answer and interpretations and unfortunately we do not know the correct one for if we did, that would probably lead to this question not being posted, this blog not existing, and we would not have to type on it for a grade. Unfortunately my typing has to come to an end and it is high type I stop this and go on to my own more personal endeavors. Personally, I am a bit irritated for some unexplicable reason, I don't know how you feel and I probably won't be able to.
Well I hope you all enjoy reading this, I know I, sort of, did enjoy writing it. I have a ringing in my ear and it feels as though something is crushing my head. Maybe the drugs I just took? No, I'm only kidding, unless that tylenol wasn't actually tylenol...just kidding again. Anyways it is even higher time I bid thee counterparts farewell for I have a metaphorical train to catch, good bye. Mr. C. Chamberlin A.K.A. the boy who didn't cry wolf when he ought to have and is now being feasted on by three famished wolves.
To me consciousness is something no one will ever be able to completely solve, It is like asking is there a God? Everybody has a different theory or belief but I don't think anyone will ever actually know or completely want the answer.
ReplyDeleteWe all hope we are not alone in the world being conscious all by ourselves. But, it is also a question where I ask myself do we actually want to know who is conscious or not or if we are ourselves?I feel as if this theory of Consciousness is more our own perception. We all just need to think about the people around us and perceive if they have a consciousness or not. As far as I know consciousness is about feeling and self. And if consciousness is really all about self and feeling don't we just want everyone to have this and not question it. Everyone I know is sad sometimes and happy sometimes and has fallen in love. I believe if all of this has happened something is happening and is conscious in that person. And no no body is controlling my brain in a vat as far as I am concerned.
I guess overall what I am trying to explain is that in my opinion I believe there is consciousness and at the very least I hope there is.
I agree with Hayley, if we were just brains in vats then what is the real purpose for us? we are here and we are real, that is why we are humans and are separated from the other creatures of the world. of course consciousness is a very controversially topic due to the fact that we may never be able to prove/ disprove it, which in turn leads to many theories of what we are and how we became who we are today.
ReplyDeleteConsciousness is of course a hard subject to study but the arguments that life is meaningless if we are all brains in a vat is superfluous because it doesn't matter if where our consciousness lies, even if it is only a brain in a vat, it is still our objective reality. The decisions that we make still affect us, people can't check and go crazy claiming "none of this is real, we are all just creating our own artificial reality." It is an interesting debate about where our seat of consciousness is, but we can't let it get in the way of our everyday lives. Consciousness is definitely real, because we perceive it everyday. Even if it is just something that we create, I'm still going to go about my everyday business because I guess in my "reality" I'm going to respond to the prompt because if I don't I will face the ramifications in life
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ReplyDeleteIt is my viewpoint that any discussion on this subject is inane and pointless. If we question the very process of perception, then we must also question the process of logical thought. If we set aside the assumption that reality exists as we perceive it, than we must also set aside the assumption that logic exists. And if we cannot use logic, than the entire concept of debate is utterly nonsensical.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I'm using logic to make the point that logic is useless in this debate but that just demonstrates the hopeless nature of said debate.
But, I'm also using logic to make that point. And I just used logic to make THAT point (the one in the previous sentence).
And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used logic to make THAT point. And I just used...
But I'm sure you've all had enough of that. If it is possible to make my point, it is made. So I'm bringing this post to conclusion. I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to demonstrate.
Of course, comprehension is an element of consciousness, so isn't that too subject to scrutiny in this debate? :)
consciousness can not be proved or disproved. If destiny or fate or some such thing exists, then there is no consciousness, everything is predetermined, and the choices we have are not actually choices, just options to make us feel as though we have choices, because if we don't choose one, we will never know what would have happened if we had, and every small choice effects the entire universe, however small.
ReplyDeletehowever, if we are conscious and such choices actually exist, then no one thing can be all knowing, all seeing, and all powerful. therefore, if consciousness is proved to exist, it proves god does not. How could one be all knowing if one cannot see the future? the future is unreadable, as we ourselves don't know what choices we'll make until presented with full knowledge of all the options.
one could argue that God or some other omniscient being would know what we choose before we did so, but then we are not actually making our own choice, as God would be able to see it. therefore we would be just fated to do something, and not conscious at all, and writing this would just be what i was planned to do, my ultimate purpose in the universe since its creation.
*head asplodes*
If we were a brain in a vat could we talk, feel, or do anything that we do in life? Conciousness makes us aware of what is around us and how we feel. Although some people have proposed a theory that we could be a brain in a vat I dont believe that. We are all our own individual, however, many of us go through similar experiences and feel the same emotions.
ReplyDeleteconciouness is living and knowing and feeling what is around you all times. If there isn't concouness than there isn't life, there is not feelin nor reasonable decision making. It's decision making based on our bieng and our thoughts about actions and consequences.
ReplyDelete